Thanks to Davin Ellicson for sending us a link to this film, showing what happened on Saturday at Piata Matache, when police broke up an unauthorised demonstration against the demolition of the market hall. Amongst those arrested was Nicusor Dan, erstwhile candidate for mayor of Bucharest.
Now, we have written before about Piata Matache, and our opinion on the subject has not changed since: the derilict building – currently blocking the route of a much-needed boulevard – should make way. Construction of the boulevard (Uranus) will take a large amount of traffic away from the city centre (Unirii-Balcescu-Magheru-Ana Ipatescu is still the only real north-south route through Bucharest).
However, we do have some points we want to make.
Firstly, the Uranus project is stuck in an all too familiar Romanian Limbo. The project was authorised years ago, work began, a fair amount of progress was made, then the protests began, work ground to a halt and we arrive at today’s nonsensical situation whereby the project is blocked because nobody will take a final a decision on whether to continue with it or not. Meantime, important streets remain closed and traffic is worse than ever.
Secondly, we do not like the idea of protestors being arrested for the simple reason that their protest was ‘unauthorised.’ That way lies tyranny. Indeed, we find the whole idea of an ‘authorised protest’ to be ludicrous. Did the French revolutionaries have authorisation to storm the Bastille? Did Romanian revolutionaries have authorisation to storm the Central Committee building? We may not agree with those people who want to preserve Piata Matache, but we certainly do agree with their right to protest how and when they like.
Finally, would Nicusor and his NGO cronies not be better off concentrating their fire on more serious issues?
{ 60 comments… read them below or add one }
and, by the way, Parmalat, you sour cheap milk, you seem to be a stupid romanian, and not a foreigner. Just stupid romanians think that Nicusor Dan is at fault. Intelligent foreigners know that the rule of law should be real and no legend from western europe.
If Nicusor Dan has won a process against the Aquapark, it means that there was something wrong with the Aquapark project. E.G. they usually “forget” to take the usual and necessary approvals for their projects. Nicusor Dan just discovers such simple omissions and brings them to court. If a project would be 100% ok, there would be no reason for Nicusor to win in court.
But this kind of argumentation is of course some storeys too high for your little macho brain, you Parmalat milk developer from Ferentari!
Piata Matache is less than a 10 minutes walk from my apartment and back in 2010-2011 this is where I used to shop for fresh vegetables, big round loaves of peasant bread and peasant cheeses. It was great! I guess I have to start hiking it to Obor.
Don’t worry, they’re gonna find a solution for the market. City council can’t afford to destroy markets cause markets serve entire neighborhoods. They only want that particular building away from the site of an important development.
this is quite incorrect and far away from any documented facts! That “particular building” that they want away from that “important development” does not impair in ANY way on building the boulevard. It is proven that this is just another stupid fixed idea of mayor Oprescu – to demolish the Hala Matache at any price. See more (if you can read romanian) here: http://piatamatache.info/?p=2053
the Matache Hall is a valuable piece of 19th century engineering architecture, and is protected by law. Similar buildings are protected by law in western europe and elsewhere. Why does this not matter to you at all? Is money and “developement” the only thing that counts in life? Is cultural value and history a zero for you?
Oh wonderful, let’s bring back the yurts from 2000 B.C. cause they’re valuable pieces of B.C. era engineering.
We can’t just halt development in order to protect some ruins. If we can integrate them and have them to produce money – that would be wonderful. But if the ruins are in our way we must get rid of them and continue development.
Don’t forget that 100 years from now our descendants will consider the Bd. Uranus as a wonderful piece of 21st century engineering so stop thinking only for yourselves; Anghel Saligny didn’t build his f*cking bridge for people to wonder while staring at it, he built the bridge cause it was needed.
your arguments are so incredibly primitive, that I won’t try to explain anything. Who gives you the right to proclaim that “the ruins are in our way” ? Not even prof. Enache, the planner of this boulevard would say this, but you know it better
They are not in anybody’s way, except in the way of stupidity.
More than this, the Hall Matache was NO RUINS AT ALL, until the city council started a systematic action of ruining it. It was a normal building until the actions of the city council.
It was such a wonderful building that everyone pissed on its walls.
English lesson # 212: overly elaborate sentences do not make you sound clever or convincing. They make you sound like a desperate-to-impress tool.
Since most of you express yourselves in monosyllabic sentences I’ll assume your comment is addressed to me so I’ll take a crack at it.
I made no secret that I’m here mostly to learn English and I resent being held responsible for ending up teaching it simply because people with decent command of the language have a lower tolerance for meaningless short sentences and either migrate from this forum or find it beneath their level to engage in the dialog more than once in a blue moon. (Am I clever and convincing enough or shall I break it down for you?)
More often than not it is not the topic itself but rather what the topic becomes when a bunch of foreigners, seeming at least partially educated, spend their nights researching and discussing about how to best torture and kill Romanian stray dogs. You can joke once or twice about it but when you make this your full-time job I will part-time remind you that there are better things you can do with your life. If you don’t like it you can either start a petition and ban me from the website or make and post the receipt of a decent donation to some dog shelter and I’ll disappear and let you keep your toys. Until then, I might hang around and perhaps convince some of you that your diary might be a better storage place for your stray dog killing plans.
The Internet offers you much needed privacy and not being sure that you are all adults I withhold caustic comments fearing I might scar for life some teenager/s. So, enjoy it folks for this is how it works, if you are an adult you get the free ride from the generous C.B.
Have you got a penis or a fanny? Can’t quite tell.
You must be a sexually deranged person although I’ve heard of people having to touch in order to read; either way, I’m a mouthful for you so next time think twice before you ask me to honor you with a comment.
Wait a minute (you almost got away with it!) aren’t you the gentleman who grew up missing it? (Sorry sir, I couldn’t resist doing the “Mr Rearguard cunt” search – what do we have there, about twenty relevant results?) I didn’t even know that this condition entitled you as well to a one-way free plane ticket out of your now purified country! What do we have to do now, treat all the pervs as well! (I know Rearguard Will Hunting, ” it’s not your fault “.)
Yep, you’ve got a fanny. Do you shave it much?
=))
No he’s gay, and never ceases to remind us of it…he is on the other hand a cunt. Is that what you were getting at?
A family who shits together, sticks together and… sinks together.
“Am I clever and convincing enough or shall I break it down for you?”. Nope, you are a desperate-to-impress tool.
You can’t be serious saying that I am desperate for attention, why would I need approval from someone whom I don’t respect? That would be like having Mr. Rearcunt bragging that he has earned frequent-flyer miles while being forced to fly out every time he tried to sneak back into his country. His rejecting country has standards and so do I.
It almost hurts seeing the cunt-missing-fellow and a few more juveniles act like buffoons and then demanding respect. In this invisible world respect is gained through quality of thoughts and words; these guys are missing both and, at least from my experience, this is quite unusual among foreigners living or traveling here!
If I am guilty of something it is the fact that I am spoiling myself engaging those “animal warriors” in their primitive language.
Give me some more Cristina Barlcea, I can’t get enough of you! PS. I don’t even read what you write. I only look to see if you have replied, again. And don’t let your boss at MegaImage catch you on his computer when you should be stacking shelves.
=)))
What happened to Cristina Barlcea? She’s finally decided to stay in the fucking kitchen where the bitch belongs!
Whoops sorry Cristina, Yours Mr RearCunt
Oh, it’s her!!! =)))
Yeah, that’s what I was about to tell him: at least I write bullshit that people can read.
“Et tu, Brute?”
I guess Jeremiah Johnson was lucky with the Crow indians, I got me the Apache tribe, those hunt in packs! (Of course we can read your bulshit, most of the time is Herbalife bulshit.)
Yeah well you’re too complicated to follow, maybe you should exchange opinions with Cornel Dinu.
… ” it’s not your fault “ Parma, ” it’s not your fault “
Back in January I fought on the streets too for my 400 Euro heating subsidy. Faced the same jandarms. Nobody should complain, I didn’t complain and I took 7 rounds of tear gas.
NGOs are scumbags, always opposing things that come in the best interest of the society.
Were there any NGOs in the street in January to fight for my 400 Euro heating subsidy? Why the f*ck should I support them? Gimme a hammer and I’m gonna raze that latrine myself.
Why do YOU need heat subsidy? Or just taking advantage of the system?
I’m taking advantage of the system just as the system is trying to take advantage of me.
It’s my right to do so in compensation for the opportunities that this country fails to offer.
You know how much a person has to pay each year if he owns a 4.2 liter car? Roughly 7000 RON. That’s called looting, the politicians are looting the people.
Politicians may be in power, but in the end they’re a bunch of idiots. So we must use our brains in order to avoid them cause their actions are limited by public perception. If they hit the people too hard, people are gonna turn on them.
That’s why I said in a previous comment “always be one step in front / behind the regular Romanians” cause if the politicians want to get you – they’re gonna have to step on a sea of people and they can’t afford to do it.
it would be a shame if it caught fire one night….
they should have demolished it over night. Problem solved.
I have always thought that should be the approach they take with the stray dogs. Disappear them all one night and worry about the fallout in the morning.
Of course! It’s the only way to do things in Romania: first you shoot and then you ask questions.
Yeah, and the night after let’s deal in a similar manner with some of the British expats.
Will promptly punish them for accepting that government subsidized plane ticket (to anywhere outside their country) before giving science a chance to address their chemical imbalances.
Are you on your period again CB?
I would normally just let you look silly in your efforts to bring the stray dog issue in just about every topic but in a previous life I was a dog and I’ve lost my favorite bitch to an expat’s arrow. Had it been one of the natives I might have not made this investment but that not being the case I feel compelled to point out that little people remain little regardless of how much education you throw at them – or, as most Romanians would say “din rahat no poti face bici care sa si trosneasca”.
We have limited resources and our own little people to deal with and I don’t find it fair that civilized societies are sending theirs here for help.
My comment about you is awaiting moderation because I used racist words. It was about gypsies and soap.
And no, I wasn’t intending to wash gypsies =))
that’s a long winded way of saying “yes”.
What British Expats? Most of them left three years ago. The one’s still here who can’t/wont move on have all turned native.
Well, why would anyone want to raze the old city (which is very costly) before trying alternative solutions like bus lanes, trams upgraded to light rail, or congestion charging?
Not a rhetorical question in fact. Many other cities in the developing world make similar seemingly unreasonable choices. Perhaps the alternative solutions require specific formal and informal institutions which do not exist here.
Btw, today I cycled at around 10 AM from Tineretului to Kiseleff via Unirii-Romană-Victoriei and it worked like a breeze; limited duration congestion charging might work as well.
I agree, but surely one way to make the city centre a more public transport-friendly and bike-friendly place is to offer alternatives, such as Uranus? Likewise, a congestion charge can only work if people who do want to use cars are offered alternatives to using the city centre. Any transport policy has to be fully integrated (imagine that in Bucharest!)
Uranus will offer drivers an alternative to the city centre, and sacrificing Hala Matache to make the city centre a more public transport and pedestrian-friendly place is a price worth paying.
You cannot save every old building: this is where the Hala Matache protesters go wrong: they have an absolutist approach. Nothing must be demolished, ever, appears to be their message.
@ 5:22 VEGETABLE RIGHTS AND PEACE!!
The city hall agreed to just go around slightly and leave Piata Matache where it was, even invest in restoring it. So it’s not blocking anything except for the interests of some real state developers.
http://www.pmb.ro/pmb/comunicate/presa_com.php?msj=493
And now, after a year of doing nothing they wanna move it. We had an agreed solution, now we’re back to nothing.
What’s wrong with moving it? It’s a better option than demolition, surely?
Moving it will require further demolitions to make way (and more expropriations).
According to Romanian law you really need to have no other choice in order to move an historical monument (art. 4 from law 422/2001). And the city hall agreed there are alternative solutions (see my previous comment).
There’s no reason to believe that they will actually move it after they will have demolished it. I don’t think anyone can trust anything the mayor says (my personal opinion).
Will not disagree with you on that last point.
Nici asa nu va convine!
all the arguments brought by Victor are exact and convincing. A pity that the blogger here is writing his posts before checking the facts. A luck that readers like Victor still exist.
.
If the blogger Turp is sensitive at matters of liberty (police arresting people that protest in an “unauthorised” way) I do not understand why he is not sensitive at matters of cultural and historical freedom? The freedom to keep the built history in place. Expecially if that history is just evaluating the neighbourhood, and the anonymous developement is just devaluating it – this is again a fact explained by urbanists and sociologists since years, in all “civilised” countries. There were a lot of similar mistakes in the USA and western Europe in the 1950-1980-ies, until they realised that keeping historic buildings means upgrading the value of a neighbourhood. But, it seems that not only Oprescu and his senior urbanists dating from Ceausescu’s time are locked in these antiquatedly wrong ideas, but also some foreigners living in Bucharest seem to be locked in… well… turpitude
If the Uranus project can be completed without moving or demolishing the market hall, all well and good. But can it? Surely if this were so then the project would have been completed some time ago?
I get the impression that this is not just about Hala Matache: it is about stopping the Bulevardul Uranus project as a whole. City wide, is about stopping any new development at all.
Question: If Hala Matache remains, what becomes of it? Who will pay for its renovation? The Bucharest taxpayer?
As for preserving historic buildings, I fully agree. But not everything can be preserved forever: there has to be a balance between preservation and development. Look at Bulevardul Magheru Nr. 1, to be opened next week: a faithful reconstruction of the the original building. Not all development is bad.
Yeah, they want to halt all developments in Bucharest so that idiot Nicusor Dan can say “look what I did”.
The same thing happened in Sectorul 4: Piedone wanted to build an Aqua Park, he had all the funding etc… and that retard Nicusor Dan together with his pussies filed lawsuit against the project.
Now we have no Aqua Park in Sectorul 4 because of a mother fucker and pussies like Matache Macelarul from above
The aqua park is an excellent example of the ‘it shall not be built’ brigade distorting the truth. They claimed that the aqua park would be built in Parcul Tineretului (an area I know well: I lived there for years), and that much of the park would be destroyed. The truth was rather different: the aqua park would have been built on the site of an old poligon (used for driving tests in the old days) situated between Tineretului and Copiilor parks.
What has happened to the site since the aqua park project was halted?
It is a fenced-off wasteland of rubble and sand. Which is far nicer than an aqua park of course.
“Idiot” – you can call successfully yourself like this, not Nicusor Dan! Nicusor Dan is the only serious politician in Bucharest matters, nowadays. You are just cheap, italian, SOUR milk, you… Parmalat, you!
He’s a motherfucker and I can’t wait to hear about his next protest so I can spit on him personally for blocking the Aqua Park in Sectorul 4.
you should rather be banned from here, you are a dirty primitive guy, the purest romanian MITOCAN, you are from that class of people that made Romania to be unlivable today, you are a brother of those guys from Romania that negate the Holocaust.
You’re obviously a NGO PIECE OF SH*T just like Nicusor Dan.
Next time I see your gang in street I’m gonna take out my d*ck and pee on you.
dear Mr. Turpitude, please be so nice and stop emitting ideas like romanians do! The most popular sport today there is called “Datul cu parerea” (emitting opinions without base).
So just try to document the matters before you say something.
Hala Matache was a perfectly functioning building, until the City Council decided it has to disappear, even if it is a protected monument. They left the “recuperatori de materiale” to bring it in a ruined situation.
So the question is not who pays for the renovation, but who pays for making it what it was one year ago: a normal building.
Secondly: the mayor wants to demolish it, and then to build it from zero again, somewhere else. This is much more costly then to repair what is there. It is the responsibility of the city council to keep a building intact, and not to leave it free to destroyers. This is THEIR problem.
There are a lot of studies, done by architects and urbanists, that explain why the Hala Matache is valuable for the whole area. So READ them first!
The boulevard would have been ready, if there would be some germans or french at work. but in Bucharest, they are just lazy. And they find reasons like “Nicusor Dan is at fault!”. They agreed they build the boulevard WITHOUT demolishing the hall, that was in july 2011. That meant, it was possible. A lot of specialists agreed.
One year later, nothing happened on the building site. So why is that? because of other reasons (stupid management) and not because of the Hala Matache.
So please check first the facts, before you just say something out of your belly.
So the boulevard has not been finished because Romanians are lazy?
Shall we just go the whole hog and blame Ceausescu?
What a wonderful opinion of Romanians you appear to have.
Oh, and I have no problem admitting I got something wrong, if that proves to be the case.
would you follow exactly what happened at Hala Matache, and would you have witnessed the history of Romania in the last 40 years, would you have risked your life at the Revolution, would you have seen what happens in this country, you would have the same opinion about romanians.
But you are, of course, just a Tchecovian guy, dreaming in a romantic and superficial way about this country. You obviously do not share with me the heaviness of being a romanian. (Emil Cioran: “about the unluck of being born”)
We changed our mind, now we want to demolish it =))