The Belgium of the East

Boia

We usually publish reviews of great books about Romania under the heading Great Books About Romania in English. Alas for those of you who don’t read Romanian, Lucian Boia’s latest book De ce este Romania altfel? (Why is Romania different?) is not – yet – available in English. We hope it will be very soon, and if Boia’s publishers (Humanitas) are reading, we are available to translate, for a modest fee. (If they are not planning on publishing an English version we might well buy the rights to do so ourselves. It’s that good).

As our regular reader (Mrs. Trellis of North Wales) will know, we are big fans of Boia here at Bucharest Life, not least for his book Romania: Borderland of Europe, which we reviewed a while ago, and which remains the finest primer on contemporary Romania available in any language.

De ce este Romania altfel? is in many ways a continuation of that book (and others), an appendix which delves into both Romania’s past and present in order to help us mull over (if not quite fully answer) the simple question posed in the title: Why is Romania different? Was it the communists who made it so? Or the Russians? Or the Turks? Or the Hungarians? Or the Romans?

Maybe it’s simply a curse?

No, is the answer we are led by this book to believe. None of the above.

In Boia’s eyes, Romania has always been different, a consequence of its belated birth and chaotic history, and the nonsense that was the Romanian political scene last summer was merely a continuation of a lot of other nonsense which has been played out for centuries. The thread which binds this essay together is that to even suggest Romania was ever anything other than a bit different (our italics) is to take a trip through fantasyland: something many have.

Take the bizarre case of Nicolae Densusianu. In 1913 Densusianu’s Dacia Preistorica was posthumously published, in which he argued that long before the Romans or the Greeks there lived in Dacia a great civilisation back to which all of Europe’s other great civilisations can trace their heritage. Densusianu believed that Latin was a dialect of Dacian, and argued that the Dacians migrated to the Italian peninsula where they laid the foundations of Ancient Rome. Far from Romanians being the descendants of the Romans (itself not entirely correct, Boia claims), the Romans were in fact the descendants of the Romanians in their earliest guise: the Dacians.

You couldn’t make it up? Well, Densusianu did.

Why he did is another question. Boia argues that it was another one of those occasional bouts of extreme national pride which punctures Romania’s national inferiority complex every now and then, and which usually massively overcompensates. Boia doesn’t quite go as far as claiming that Romania is fundamentally a manic-depressive country, but you can see what he’s getting at.

After all, Boia is a historian first and foremost. The book is therefore packed with far more facts than hypotheses or psychoanalysis. Some of the facts are gems. We find out for example that long before Bucharest was known as the Paris of the East (if it ever was), Romania as a whole had ambitions to become the Belgium of the East. Oh yes.

Apparently, the country’s 1866 constitution was a copy – almost word for word – of the 1830 Belgian constitution. (Victor Ponta was therefore not the first Romanian politician to allegedly be ‘inspired’ from elsewhere). As Boia points out, you have to question the wisdom of those men who decided that industrial Belgium would be the ideal model for rural Romania.

It was also pleasing to find intact Boia’s devastating ability to tear apart hitherto Romanian national myths (not least because he always does so sparingly, never needing more than a sentence or two).

Take for example his dismissal of the idea that the Romania of the 1930s was some kind of golden age of plenty, a shangri-la of which Romanians were robbed by those nasty communists. (Not few are the lesser historians who have tried to portray interbellic Romania as a model worthy of copying).

Far from being a model society Romania in the 1930s was the most backwards country in Europe. All but a small, privileged, wealthy (and often non-Romanian) elite lived generally miserable lives. Less than half the population could read and write and less than 20 per cent lived in towns.

There’s no need to add anything else.

While the communists put some of this right – making education universal and getting millions of peasants off the land – they also further atomised an already highly divided society. Yet as Boia repeatedly reminds us, to place the blame for Romania’s current plight on one unfortunate 40 year period is to ignore hundreds of years of often self-inflicted misfortune.

Having reached the final chapter, which deals with last year’s shenanigans, it becomes difficult to see how those bizarre days last summer could have played out any differently. That grey area in the Romanian constitution (not for some time based on the Belgian model) where the Romanian president’s brief ends and parliament’s begins was always bound to cause issues sooner or later, almost as though it had been quite deliberately designed to do so. As for the question of whether Traian Basescu deserved to be impeached, Boia is suitably dismissive: Basescu was no more a dictator than the attempt to remove him was a coup d’etat. He also points out that the result of the referendum Basescu lost, and yet still won, was ‘suitably different. Suitably Romanian.’

  • Pingback: Modern freestanding Tubs()

  • Roger

    Well well ……….. Never been a better time of late to buy property or land in Romania, similar to the rush in Belgium France and Costa Del Sol many years back. The Euro is weak in comparison to ‘some’ currencies and fill yer boots time for the investors in property or the small time purchaser in the nice developments on the outskirts of Buc – some real bargains to be made!

    On a side note, I see that weirdo anon has been around abusing, being homophobic and generally unpleasant and angry for some time now!

    Now why doesn’t that surprise me 🙂

    He’s a typical abusive and delusional pro EUssr leftie loon! Who preys on eastern european women, sick man.

    • Anon

      I see your financial advice is as comprehensive as your command of the English language.
      Romania is a terrible place to invest in property at the moment considering it’s still deflating from the bubble that popped a few years ago.

      Nice uncalled for personal attack though, I guess that’s what PotE refers to as a well mannered, thoughtful reply…

    • Anon

      I see your financial advice is as comprehensive as your command of the English language.
      Romania is a terrible place to invest in property at the moment considering it’s still deflating from the bubble that popped a few years ago.
      Nice uncalled for personal attack though, I guess that’s what PotE refers to as a well mannered, thoughtful reply……

      • Roger

        @anon it’s an opinion and not financial advice, the euro in comparison to the pound is weak (fact) …. Craig himself had a link to a very attractive piece of land near Brasov I think it was, and for a bargain price, for what you got for your money! As for a terrible place to invest in property? I don’t get that, how so? If you took a second to look at the new developments around the outskirts of Bucharest there are some great new developments and at great prices, for what you get ….. So without dismissing anything I ever say out of hand, why not be an adult and counter the points with facts …… I am not saying Romanian land and property is the BEST place to invest in the world ……. BUT you claim it’s ”terrible” place to invest ??? Are you actually thinking about what you type ?
        As for the personal attack, well it’s actually how you come across, and you are always the first to abuse anyone on here, and I see PofYE has really got under your skin, with her articulate and very observant comments about how you behave ………… So only yourself to blame, stop acting like a child and abusing anyone who has a contrary view to yourself ……… Your homophobic slurs lead me to believe you’re not as educated as you make out, how could you be with such bigoted and prehistoric views!

    • Mr Rearguard

      I doubt it very much that you will find real bargains in the Bucharest area. It does not matter how weak the Euro is compared to other currencies because the locals in that part of Romania would rather wait for the market to go up…even if it means waiting 20 years.

      • Anon

        And the average salary isn’t high enough for most ‘locals’ to get the financing necessary to buy a property. The bubble is still deflating and being driven entirely by outside ‘investment’.
        I feel sorry for all the Romanians who are tied into one of those scam mortgages in CHF…after last month they are screwed.

      • Roger

        @Rearguard and more so anon …….. Yes fair enough and I worded what i was trying to say a little wrongly I guess, but I am man enough to admit it, unlike our resident angry bully ………. I have seen what I would determine a ‘bargain’ on the outskirts of the city in all directions ….. Now forgive me on this one but a place beginning with C to the North West of the city about 40km outside …. a new development of blocks and they are at a great price for the property you get …….. Now of course this is MY opinion in relation to MY income/circumstances ……. Of course to perhaps many they may well be very expensive ! I should have stated clearly for the ones who can’t think outside the box …….. that to perhaps someone who sold a UK property for say 195,000 pounds Feb 2015 ….. then to ME I could purchase what I would consider a bargain as I see properties FAR more attractive than my current 3 bed detached north of england property as I stand …… So in effect to ME and many others in a similar situation, there ARE some bargains in Romania, in comparison to what my money could get in the UK ……. add that onto the favourable Euro and I do feel my personal view is a valid one …………. I really can’t fathom for even people with perhaps less to invest in a property or land ,,,,,,, That Romania is a TERRIBLE place to invest or but land/property as anon states ???

        • Anon

          ‘invest/ɪnˈvɛst/verb
          put (money) into financial schemes, shares, property, or a commercial venture with the expectation of achieving a profit.’

          How do you expect to obtain a profit when prices are still on the decline and the bubble is still popping?

          • Roger

            @anon … I thought I’d made my personal view pretty clear in my last post, however I am learning that you’re the type who’s only counter to any points is to point out spelling or grammatical errors and now the exact definitions of words (you MUST be unhappy or have some sort of issue in your life to be as you are) … Looking back your behavior and clear anger in your posts are disturbing (had a look back a couple of years now and you seem to abuse all and sundry regardless?) ……. Genuine comment here but don’t you think you need some form of help?

            As for an investment in say some of the very reasonably priced land at the moment – is it beyond comprehension that it may rise in value, and be a sound investment, if that’s what your getting angry about? You have lost me as I feel that for my personal circumstances there ARE bargains to be had, and all your angry talk about bubbles is pointless and irrelevant to my personal investment or bargain hunting circumstances.

            Can’t you just try to be less angry and take your hatred somewhere else, as you are ruining what’s a great website forum, with your constant abuse and stalking of people you don’t even know?

          • Roger

            ”How do you expect to obtain profit when prices are still on the decline and the bubble is still popping”

            No, never claimed or said that, so either you’re delusional or just so angry you can’t make a logical point anymore, which is it?

            However I will answer your made up point, in hope it calms you down somewhat.

            Not ALL investments mean that IMMEDIATE profit is required or gained, if prices are dropping as you have just claimed, then surely at some point they may well rise? The ‘bubble’ I assume is either something you are taking (see UK drug culture) OR you are ignorant to the fact that land and property can rise in value as much as it can lower in value.

            Besides, my point and opinion is based on my personal circumstances and whether it makes you angry or not, for me personally there are some bargains to be had, and I’ll get a lot more for my money and a wise use of my cash, with no real desire for any profit 🙂

            Try and keep calm when you let this post sink in, and maybe try and be mature enough to reply in a sensible manner as I feel you’re ruining thread after thread with your constant attacks on me and many others …. Just what is your problem and we can try and help you?

            Maybe have a word with Craig and see if he can make the posts able to be edited, so spelling and grammar mistakes can be corrected by you, like some sort of therapy/hobby for you? To fill the void in your life so to speak ……. Not a micky take, just trying to help someone who’s clearly troubled and unhappy in life.

          • Anon

            Typical Roger, I ask you to clarify a simple point and you launch into ad hominim attacks.

            I’m sorry you’re so insecure in your stances that you seem unable to engage in a mature and productive manner, so instead I will stoop to a level you can understand and just call you a cock.

          • Roger

            @anon …….. I thought it was a perfectly reasonable reply under the circumstances of engaging with a man/women as unstable as yourself ……. I am man enough to apologise if offence has been caused and I’ll even add a few spellwing and grammitical error’s in my posts to make you feel more comfortable as I know you enjoy spotting them and taking great issue with such 🙂 Aside from that, it’s come as no surprise that my perfectly fair and reasonable reply is ignore by you and you’ve not an ounce of humility to admit others have a valid view and your hatred of a stranger on the internet, makes you incapable of engaging without anger and abuse. …….. I’ll keep trying with my olive branches to you, but looking how you act on here (had a scan a few years back of posts) …….. I’m not so sure you can be helped ……….. So come on anon, try and calm yourself enough and reply to points in a reasonable manner, and take that anger out of your life, it CAN’T possibly be healthy for you (genuine point there) Have a nice remainder of your day, I do hope in the future we can help and educate you.

          • Roger

            @anon ….. I DID clarify and answer your question, so I presume in your anger of reading my reply you missed it? 3.48 and 3.58 on the 8th February 2015, so in fact TWO posts in reply to your singular question – so you are lying again to claim I didn’t answer, as all can see in black and white that I did 🙂

            I am beginning to wonder if you have a mental health issue, and you have my sympathy if you do, it’s very common and you can get help for it, I’m not so sure this is the right place for you if you can’t debate and act like a relatively normal and mature level headed adult.

            Do you think for the good of the forum you can try? I am happy to do so and willing to offer my help with links for mental health and or depression and stress ……. No problem at all, just reply and I’ll do the best I can for you.

          • Anon

            Lol I *really* hope you’ve ‘invested’ your own money into Romanian property.

  • Cris

    A myth is that Romanians come from Dacians and Romans. The Romans occupied and robbed a small part of western Romania from 106 to 275 AD. The Cumans, Avars, Pechenegs, Goths and other Turkic tribes lived in Romania for centuries.

    It was a borderland, a periphery province of the Byzantine Empire where the official languages where Latin and Greek. Gradually, Latin died out in the Empire, from the center out, starting in Constantinople. Hence, why the strong claim of Latin-blood.

    Most Romanians are probably Cuman.

    • Cris

      Having read the book – I can now say this: most of it, is fallacious; it doesn’t take a genius to distinguish between an argument and a fallacy. If anything, given their position, and circumstances, the Romanian people have shown tremendous resilience.

      I do think like Nicolae Iorga, who was a genius, that the origin of Romanians is a mixture of the many people that lived and passed through the land; but Boia is wrong and the books looks like a rough-draft, unfinished and lazy – there is not much investigation or the principle of fairness or solid, logical arguments with facts; just the ramblings of an inaccurate old man.

  • Geronimo

    So in summary Romania is the birthplace of civilisation, has the fittest women in the world and invented pretty much anything worth having (I still think the fountain pen merits more discussion). Sounds like paradise.

    • Parmalat

      Unfortunately, the EU destroyed it…

    • laur

      It still is. And i ‘m in london (not commuting) and off to the algarve for a year soon for a wonderful fuck all…

      • Magus

        Stop begging in London, gypsy.

        • Anon

          Heh after his rants about how awesome Romania is, he’s off begging in the UK.

        • laur

          Magus you retard fish…back from your 9 5 job>? now you can post on your spare time you little slave…
          ANON i wonder how long will it take for people to realize it is actually Craig writing everything. This is a small blog and when someone like me comes in ….his little alter ego pops out swearin and all that.That s his answer for balancing replies so the blog doesn t get raped like it does. Excellent.Except we all know it s you.

          • Anon

            What the fuck kind of drugs are you on Laur? Good day on the streets begging btw?

            • laur

              I don t know craig you should really think about this…. one day someone might fuk you over a ANON reply lol.

        • Parmalat

          =))))))

    • Anon

      Well he didn’t invent the fountain pen, they had been around for nearly 1000 years already, he did invent the replaceable cartridge though.

      • Parmalat

        He should have invented the goose feather…

      • Roger

        @anon ……. i see there is plenty of evidence of you being angry and abusive on this forum for some time now ……… are you suffering from a mental illness or do you have learning difficulties; and this is why you are so angry ?

  • Anon

    “I don t see anyone else disputing what i posted.”
    Knowledge is not a democratic process, something is either true, or it isn’t, no matter how much you try to shift the goalposts…and if you look closely enough you will see others disagreeing with you. Romania the first country to start producing oil HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

    “Ignorance is bliss my gay friend”
    Really, this line sums you up pretty damn well.

    • laur

      The Science of Petroleum” certifies in 1938 the fact that Romania was the first country in the world with an oil production of 275 tones officially registered in the international statistics. It was followed by the United States in 1859, Italy in 1860, Canada in 1862 and Russia in 1863.

      Say what?

      • Anon

        I say you’re shifting the goalposts AGAIN
        This is what you initially claimed:
        “You are making me laugh with your lack of disinfo. ROMANIA was the first the country in the world to officially start producing oil.”

        Which is clearly incorrect and contains a certain amount of irony given that you’re accusing someone of disinformation.

        Care to tell me again exactly how even if your claims were true, this makes a difference to your influence on the world? No? Still avoiding the question? Still trying to suck the cock of greater men long past in hope it diverts from the shame of having cheeks spread?

        • laur

          Influence on the world you say? you seem to pretend than BASGAN never existed and the americans didn t benefit from his inventions,and yes becoming the worlds largest oil producer at that time.
          You think oil is flowers, wars are still being fought over it nowadays wtf???? still don t get it?

          • laur

            oh and: everyone look at me!!!!! im taking credit again!!!!
            yes giiiive me alll the credit lol. do you have anything else to add except that im taking credit?

            • Anon

              Considering I said “Care to tell me again exactly how even if your claims were true, this makes a difference to your influence on the world?” (Emphasis on YOUR) and you bring up Basgan (Who? What? he doesn’t even have a wikipage yet alone any thing outside Romania dedicated to him), then yes, it would seem that you’re trying to take credit for other people’s achievements.

    • Roger

      homophobic scum anon

      • anon

        Hahaha you just went though a years worth of posts to try and find something bad I may have said, and then really clutched at straws to make it fit. You’re pathetic. And racist.

        • Roger

          @anon

          Calm down, I was merely perusing threads and came across yet another angry ranting argument you were having and I see that you’re a homophobic scum bag.

          Quite an eye opener really 🙂

          You still haven’t found ONE racist thing I’ve ever said, have you?

          🙂

          • anon

            And as usual you’re making shit up. If your ability to construct an argument or back up your points with evidence is anything to go by, then I can see why you’re worried how an immigrant who doesn’t speak English could take your job. I’d say you’re suited to a job as McDonalds, but I’m afraid that would be insulting to burger flippers.
            Sad, pathetic little man.

          • anon

            Speaking of homophobia, why do you support a party with such a disgraceful record when it comes to standing up for LBGT rights?

            http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/05/20/comment-ukips-disgraceful-record-on-gay-rights/

            Are you afraid of more flooding?

          • Roger

            @anon

            You’re a homophobe and hater of Bucharest, I’d say you’re the sad pathetic little man on that basis. 🙂

            Still not ONE shred of evidence that I am racist, which I’m not 🙂

            Keep punching your ranting replies into your keyboard you silly little man. 🙂

          • anon

            Roger in “doesn’t know what quotation marks mean and is unable to follow a conversation” shocker.
            You’re really clutching at straws…or you think I’m Laur and was having a conversation with myself.
            Anyway my racist acquaintance, I see you sidestepped the whole voting for a homophobic party thing there, just like you have when anyone pointed out you’re a racist scumbag.

          • Roger

            @anon

            You mock Bucharest and you’re a homophobe who can’t find a single post where I have been racist ……….. and you don’t like it, do you 🙂

          • Geronimo

            Anon is trying to help you Roger but you insist on looking like a div. The phrase you are getting upset about was made by someone else (laur – another div).

          • Roger

            @Geronimo

            Angry anon follows me sround calling me racist, and yet he has failed to produce a single post where I have been racist.

            Not sure what insult ‘div’ is supposed to be, but it seems like your mate anon is in the catergory you describe.

    • Roger

      @anon ………. and here you are being abusive and homophobic to another poster ………… why does being homosexual disgust you so much? Does this not make your pro EUssr and pro immigration without any control make you a hypocrite and simpleton ?

      • Mr Rearguard

        It’s disgusting because it’s not normal for a man to insert his penis into the anus of a young boy.

      • anon

        Lol I see you’re having a full-on meltdown.

        I’ll quote Geronimo who said it best

        ‘Anon is trying to help you Roger but you insist on looking like a div. The phrase you are getting upset about was made by someone else (laur – another div).’

        Keep on dancing monkey boy.

        • Roger

          What’s a full on meltdown? Is that when you allow a stranger to make you angry and you have to resort calling him a monkey, as mature adults do 🙂

  • In 1848 the idea was briefly floated of giving the Danubian principalities (Moldavia and Wallachia) to Austria. This would have been on the whole a good thing for the Regat, as Seton-Watson says.

  • In 1848 the idea was briefly floating of giving the Danubian principalities (Moldavia and W

  • A constitution copied from the Belgian one was standard issue in the late nineteenth century and long after – Ishmaelia in Evelyn Waugh’s Scoop for example has one – the returning officers in elections make year long tours through the jungle to assess the vote. I agree with you on Boia and must read the new book – thank you for alerting me. Everyone knows how very poor Romania was before Communism but my feeling is that most things about Romania which Romanians blame on Communism existed before. Romania before 1945 was what would be called now a Third World country – the communists forced industrialisation. Ending illiteracy is good and bad – illiterate people are usually incredibly wise, more so than the readers of tabloid newspapers. Paul

    • Parmalat

      Excellent comment! Right on spot!

    • laur

      You are making me laugh with your lack of disinfo. ROMANIA was the first the country in the world to officially start producing oil. And thanks to this guy who nobody knows America won billions of dollars even back then. I bet 99% of readers have no clue about this man.
      http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Șt._Basgan

      • laur

        Pre 1945 we gave the world the first aerodinamic car, invented ”theory of sonics” and showed the world how to dig for oil properly so they could have world wars. Thirld World my Ass!!! Yes pre 1945.
        Bucharest ,first place in the world illuminated with lamp oil.
        ”Who will have the oil will have the domination”. Oh thank you First world countries for all your teachings!!!

        • Geronimo

          Don’t forget the fountain pen!

        • Anon

          “Pre 1945 we gave the world the first aerodinamic car, invented ”theory of sonics” and showed the world how to dig for oil properly so they could have world wars.”

          We? That was you?! Well fuck me backwards, time to rewrite the history books! An internet poster called Laur has lived hundreds of years longer than the oldest human being known, and invented several items never seen before (except for oil [china 347 CE] and aerodynamics [1921 Germany]) including the theory of sonics (but for some reason I can’t see any citations of the name Laur).
          Oh wait, YOU did sweet fuck all, YOU had nothing to do with the discoveries you mentioned, YOU post on an internet message board and try to take credit for things YOU had no part in. Maybe YOU should shut the fuck up and do something worthwhile with your life.

          • laur

            Finally you lost it. When someone comes out saying :WE know what was in Romania prior to communism. WE know you were dirt poor. You see round here WE think the industrial revolution in England was nothing more than ship building en masse in order to plunder the world and canal digging. Yes digging canals all over that place was apparently called the industrial revolution. I NEVER said Romania invented oil you donkey!!! now read what it says under this link again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurel_Persu

            Am I lying ? Or maybe things like this really shake your entire foundation as a human being if you fail to acknowledge them with grace. You are disgusting reactin like this.
            I don t take credit for jackshit, i m just a vigilante troll who slaps bullshiters when given the chance.

            • Anon

              You know 1921 is earlier than 1922-23 right?
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Rumpler
              1921

              and then we have the 1914 Alfa
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.L.F.A_40/60_HP

              And no, you said you showed the world how to dig for oil properly…
              The Chinese were the first to be digging oil wells. The Oil you’re referring to is simply seep oil, you know stuff that just dribbles out and requires little digging.

              You had no role in these achievements regardless.

              • laur

                seriously the cars you ve shown me DO not have an aerodynamic shape at all. Their wheels are OUTSIDE
                who said anything about digging oil wells lol. I m not referring to oil but to oil forage technology.
                As a result the world s first PROPER refinery was in Romania.
                Its the last time ill repeat myself. You seem numb not dumb.

                • Anon

                  If you’re a product of the Romanian education system then you’re not exactly putting the countries best foot forward…
                  “seriously the cars you ve shown me DO not have an aerodynamic shape at all. Their wheels are OUTSIDE”
                  I presume you failed both reading comprehension and basic physics. Do you understand what a drag coefficient is? The first car I posted had a drag coefficient of 0.28, for comparison that of a Toyota Pris is between 0.25 and 0.30 depending on your source, most modern cars have a C of between 0.35 and 0.45…
                  In fact there is a nice table here comparing the ‘Drop’ I posted to other notable cars.

                  “who said anything about digging oil wells lol”
                  You did “we… showed the world how to dig for oil properly “, followed by “Bucharest ,first place in the world illuminated with lamp oil.”
                  And the worlds first refinery was in Scotland, followed by Poland, THEN Romania which just took established technology and US money and scaled it up a bit.
                  oh and “The first description of a simple lamp using crude mineral oil was provided by al-Razi (Rhazes) in 9th century Baghdad”

                  It’s quite sad that you have to lie and make up stuff in order to beat your nationalistic chest. Revisionist history at it’s best. Next you’ll be telling me Romania invented the Radiator too…
                  Regardless none of that matters, Romania could have invented the entirety of modern medicine for all I care, but it doesn’t change that fact that YOU had no role in any of Romania’s achievements and therefore your attempts at accociating yourself with them are pathetic and disrespectful to the people who actually made good use of themselves, and also doesn’t change the fact that Romania has a fair amount of serious problems that need addressing.

                  • Parmalat

                    Romania pre-WWII was pure crap. For example today we have one the best internet speeds in the world but we’re still crap.

                    So having the third refinery, the second aerodynamic car etc… doesn’t mean Romania wasn’t crap. It was crap just like today.

                    On the other hand, Romania during the times of Ceausescu when some of the greatest infrastructure projects in Europe were pursued… that was a real country!

                  • laur

                    You are so gay.
                    Aurel Persu (1890–1977) was a Romanian engineer, and the FIRST to apply aerodynamics principles to automobiles. He came to the conclusion that the perfectly aerodynamic automobile has the shape of a falling water drop. from wiki.
                    Same broken disk picking on the ”WE”…
                    Now read this:
                    Ion Research Basgan in oil drilling by combining sonics with “Basgan effect” began as early as 1932. The first patents have not immediate. Among the most important are Reminded: “Method for improving efficiency and improving rotary drilling by rotary percussive drilling and hydraulic pressure damping”, patented in Romania (patent no. 22789/1934) and later in the U.S., “Rotary Well Drilling Apparatus “US-patented (patent no. 2103137/1937) and later refined in Romania:” Rotary hammer Drill through “(patent no. 37743/1945). These inventions have revolutionized the era drilling technique.
                    Initially, these inventions were used in the country. Since 1937, they have been implemented in the U.S. by major oil companies. The duration of the Second World War Romanian engineer inventions were seized, being released only in 1965, by Order 838 / 10.13.1965 of the U.S. Department of Justice. Although many approaches have been întrteprinse Ion Basgan failed to recover due to copyright resulting from the use of his discoveries and inventions. These were assessed by a panel of experts Germans approx. $ 8.4 billion.
                    In 1967, Basgan patented in France, USA, Portugal and the United Arab Emirates invention “rotary and percussive drilling system with sonic frequencies, limiting the pressure effect Archimedes, and that plant and equipment”, which was critical barrier exceeded 8000 m depth.
                    Throughout life, John Basgan has published over 60 papers, consisting of articles, topics discussed in lectures and treatises on drilling technique.
                    It s amazing technology for back then and its NOT diggin a 100m hole in SCOTLAND or china.
                    I wonder why we can t find this on wiki in english.
                    PROBABLY because of the ongoing lawsuit still open to this day.
                    Maybe YOU should stop revising Romania s history BOIA s gangnam style.
                    You seem to agree on the language topic and yet you promote his book lol.

                    • Anon

                      Yes, I am happy, what about it? Oh wait, you were being homophobic! I get it! HAHAHHAHA

                      Eeeer are you seriously trying to use Wikipedia as a reliable source to get around the issue of dates? We see the Alfa 1914, and teardrop produced before Romania’s effort yet you cling onto a mistake written on wikipedia.

                      You also seem to be widening the goalposts wherever you can, from ‘being the first to dig for oil’, to ‘the first to refine oil’ and now ‘the first to improve a way on how to dig for oil’. Throw enough darts and one or two may hit the target, but ‘improved on existing technology’, isn’t the same as ‘was the first ever person to start doing something’.
                      And regardless, as said before YOU had nothing to do with these achievements and they do not excuse the problems with Romania today. Please tell me how exactly they are relevant to Romania today my poorly educated, nationalistic, bigoted, homophobic friend.

                    • laur

                      You are blabbering all over. You are weak and lost. I don t see anyone else disputing what i posted.The reason i do it is that the few/many readers of this blog don t get a biased idea about Romania pre 1945 and how rural/poor/backwards/ it was compared to other WESTERN PEASANTS at the time.
                      Ignorance is bliss my gay friend.

                    • Andy H

                      I was quite enjoying reading laur’s impassioned if possibly a bit mad) posts, until she/he started with the homophobia. Can’t you find genuine insults laur? Why this shit?

                    • laur

                      Side note:I have a neutral attitude on gays. They mean nothing to me ,really. I don t like tough when they start parading…
                      And with the latest government support they are made to look like an endangered species when actually its quite the contrary. So with that in mind i don t think i should dress myself when using that word with a very different meaning back in the day. People take them too serious because you know…it s a funny debate.. it makes you stand for something.So i used that word without givin a damn about its meaning or other repercussions.I will stop using because it run its course obs.

    • laur

      Romania poor before Coummunism ?hahahaha

      • Expatescu

        Laur wrote:
        Ignorance is bliss my gay friend.

        Are you really that unsophisticated and backward to believe that “gay” is a pejorative?

        If you needed to write anything to fully negate your positions – well, you did it.

        If Romania was ever as civilised as you maintain, it’s all been lost on you.

        • Parmalat

          =)))))

  • karl

    A small remark on the quote about the Belgian consitution, which inspired the title. As a Belgian historian with in an interest in Romania, of I may.

    The industrialisation of Belgium in the first half of the 19th century was still limited to the city centres of Ghent (textile), Liège (foundries), Mons and Charleroi (coal). Outside of those centers of early industrialisation, the country was pretty much rural until the first half of the 20th century, although f.e. an early railway system did have an impact.

    The Belgian constitution of 1831 didn’t have much to do with those economics, but drew on French and American (strict separation of power, parliamentary democracy, centralisation of government levels) and English inspiration (monarchy, civil rights). Point is, from then on it served as a point of reference for several other constitutions of parliamentary monarchies: Denmark, Sweden, Luxemburg. And it even spread to Asia and the Middle east (seriously!): Thailand/Siam and Iran had their consitutions directly inspired on the Belgian example.

    In short ‘Belgium of the East’ refers more to being parliamentary monarchy, both with serious limitations on who could cast votes, than to being industrialised/urbanised, which neither countries were.

    • Magnificent, and thank you. A comment which adds something to the original post. I might have it stuffed.

      • karl

        My pleasure – and apologies for the horrendous spelling and typing.

  • Essentially, Romania is a paradox. The present culture continues to toss away the things that make us most human such as the beautiful pre-WWII architecture in Bucharest or the traditional village life of the countryside. It seems to me, that Romanians often don’t know the value of what they do have. They are seeking to achieve wealthy symbols of the West and yet Western consumerism only leads in one direction, towards an unhealthy vapid culture.

    • Parmalat

      Just like Afghanistan, in its entire history – Romania has only built something in a coordinated manner during the times of Communism. The rest of the country’s history is more or less the result of hazard.

      Now if we destroyed most things that we build ourselves with our own hands and sacrifices during Communism – everything else is mostly disposable crap. Put them down and move on to a new era.

      http://www.evz.ro/detalii/stiri/primaria-a-inceput-demolarea-halei-matache-1029768.html

      • Parmalat,

        The fact of the matter is, is that present day Romanians are not even skilled in how to construct and decorate the kinds of buildings built in Bucharest pre-WWII. Those artisans had been trained in France and Italy. Today’s Romanian’s not only bare little resemblance to interbellic Bucharestians, but they don’t have the skills to build such buildings even if they wanted to. Hence, again, the idea of there being a “Romanian Paradox” that seems to infuse every aspect of Romanian life.

        No one I know thinks highly of the outlying apartment bloc areas of Bucharest. Everyone I know says they never go out of the center, spending all of there time in historic Bucharest. Indeed, whenever I do venture outside the ring road, I feel as if I have entered an entirely separate city that has no connection to the one 200 meters in the other direction.

        Ceausescu’s building schemes have no connection to the normal progression of building construction historically in Bucharest. He was trying to forever change the city and its people by short circuiting its inherent logic and past glory through the destruction of the historic architecture and construction of ugly blocs as well as the Palace. Bucharest’s decimation by Ceausescu remains the most of any European city in peace time.

        • Parmalat

          It depends who you know, if you know rich Westerners who came here to get even more rich on the backs of Romanian people – then it’s pretty obvious why they don’t like the neighborhoods.

          On the other hand, Ceausescu’s model was the best solution in order to provide everyone with a roof above his head. Can you blame Ceausescu for providing homes to people? Bucharest couldn’t build interbelic palaces for 2 million citizens, but it did give everyone a home with access to modern appliances like sewage, electricity and hot water. Before Ceausescu – everyone except a handful of rich mother f*ckers were pissing in the backyard.

          Of course we don’t know how to build such pre-WWII crap, because we don’t need it. What we need is cheap and functional buildings, cheap and functional cars, cheap and functional electronics, cheap and functional shit so we can develop the country.

          And then when it’s gonna rain money over Bucharest – then we can build gold palaces.

          Until then – scrap’em, sell’em and use the land to build office buildings. Why don’t your rich Westerners buy all those villas and repair them with money from their pockets if they’re so concerned about them?!

          • Anon

            “Until then – scrap’em, sell’em and use the land to build office buildings. Why don’t your rich Westerners buy all those villas and repair them with money from their pockets if they’re so concerned about them?!”

            Probably because once the sale is over, some cunt with magic papers will claim it was their great great grandfathers house once, and you will lose it.

            • Parmalat

              =)))))

        • Before WWII most people in Bucharest lived in tiny houses that usually lacked basic amenities (such as indoor toilets etc). The blocks may not look very nice but in general they were a vast improvement on what people had lived in before.

          Davin you really need to ditch this idea that everyone in pre-WW II Bucharest lived in a lovely fin de siecle mansion in the city centre: the tiny ruling class did, but that was it.

          • I never said everyone did. I am talking about the historic center of Bucharest and how it should be preserved.

            • It should be preserved, yes, wherever possible. But modern Bucharest is not best represented by those villas and mansions of yore: modern Bucharest is a city of apartment blocks, home to millions, whether we like the fact or not.

  • Andy H

    This is my favourite comments section of any article so far on Bucharest Life (and there’s some stiff competition). (Though I suspect that half of the people writing on this one are just Parmalat using different accounts)

    • Parmalat

      =)) Unfortunately I missed most of the action

  • Silwer

    magus . you re too stupid to even understand what latin really means…

  • Silwer

    Craig, you british mut.

    What the hell do you even know about Romania and Romanians? Seriously. Romanian language is the closest language to latin. Romania has more culture than your pathetic British Islands. What Lucian Boia said is partially true, but just partially. Romania during the 30´s was one of the richest country in the region. Econimcally, Romania was better than countries such as Italy, Portugal, Spain and Greece. Hell even better than Sweden and Denmark. Look at the interbelic pictures. A backward country could never have build great buildings such as a Sturdza Palace, Hotell Lafeyette, Hotel Paris. A Bucharest which became vastly recognized as Little Paris, in a country which had alot of common with France and French culture.

    Who the hell are you deny to those things? Is like saying british females can be equally good looking as Romanian females.

    • Indeed, how could a foreigner know anything about Romania? People like me should be arrested, quite frankly.

      By they way, did I actually say anything about the Romanian language? No.

      Oh, and as for the idea that a few photos of some indeed rather splendid buildings make a country wealthy… I can see a flaw or two in that argument.

    • Oh and by the way I am not British.

    • Ron

      There’s no better way and objective opinion to judge a country than by an unbiased foreigner’s perspective. All that belle epoque was on paper and some iconic short film and pictures of Calea Victoriei. Romania has always been an extremely rural country. Remember the drinking water sellers (sacagii) from Podul Mogosoaiei (today, Piata natiunilor Unite – Podul Victoriei) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/Baer_-_Podul_Mogo%C5%9Foaiei,_sacagii.jpg
      Apart from a minor bourgeoisie in Bucharest and a handful of cities and the French architecture buldings in Bucharest the rest of the country was rather poor and really ages back. And a question for Silwer: What the hell do you even know about Romania and Romanians?

      • Silwer

        I bet you are of those foreigner who keep coming back to Bucharet for the sake of women and quality p***. Yet you still value your women, and probably females from Ukraine and Russia as better looking race of females..

        Look. Romania, as a civilization may have been more rural than other countries in Europe. But so what? Our rural culture has given us(and the rest of the world) some of world greatest modern leading artists in terms of sculptures, poets, architecture, painters. Great names were emerged from rural society such as Constantin Brancusi, Lucian Blaga, Tudor Arghezi, Ion Irimescu, Ion Marin Sadoveanu, Petru Dumitru, Nichita Stanescu, Enescu,Cioran, Eliade, Ionescu ,Theodor Aman, Nicolae Grigorescu which all of them gave us plenty of great masterpieces which even leave western culture behind into agony of despair.

        Do you seriously believe those Belle Epoque houses were the ground foundation of what made Bucharest to be beautiful? No. It was Romanian architeture. Made by great Romanian names like Ion Mincu and Petru Antonescu, both of them laid the ground of brancovenesc style embodied into houses scattered around the city of Bucharest. So who the hell are you the deny those things? Please do tell Mr. Foreigner. Just because you manage to squeeze a couple Romanian hookers does not make you so freakin superior. Got it? You country, your culture, your langauge, your arists, your race of people, your history is no more superior nor inferior than ours. Even though you believe the contrary.

        Plus, on top of that. Romanian race, DNA, produces the most gorgeous females in history of mankind. Way more superior than your race. I´m sorry, but that´s truth.

        • Anon

          Silwer,
          Why are you trying to associate yourself with the achievements of other people? Things you played no part in.

        • Ron

          You assumed wrong Silwer, ceea ce dovedeste ca mintea ta e setata pe straini, women si p***. Ai fost in Budapesta sa vezi cum arata femeile acolo? Nu faci decat sa maresti randul celor care cred ca Romania e buricul lumii. E una dintre cele mai frumoase tari din Europa, dar ai fost in Norvegia? Brancusi, a master, Enescu la fel, dar nu sunt de ajuns pentru a acoperi jegul cotidian. Romania arata nasol la nivelul strazii unde marlania e rege. Asta fii sigur ca se vede. Totul e sa ne multumim cu ce avem totusi si sa nu mai dam in fiert.

          • Silwer

            Our culture can erradicate the negative image Romania has. Look at the Italians, they are equally uncivilized, uneducated etc. Yet foreigner still love their country. Why? What the hell do they have and we don´t. History? Great architeture? Beautiful females? Delicious food? Great Literature? Poems? A romantic Latin Language? Creative people? Romantic sights? We have everything equally much as the Italians and the French….

            • Anon

              Have you ever been to Italy? France? Jesus…
              What do France and Italy have that Romania doesn’t? Having visited both countries, I can say without a shadow of a doubt, they made me feel welcome and accepted in their country; none of this “oooh he’s foreign and therefore rich, and I’m somehow entitled to some of his money. Hahahhahaa stupid foreigner” attitude encountered in Romania.
              They also have decent infrastructure which makes it easier to get from place to place, a distinct lack of dogs and dog shit on the streets, and a decent manner of customer service.

              Still, care to answer my previous question?
              “Why are you trying to associate yourself with the achievements of other people? Things you played no part in.”

            • Parmalat

              Beautiful females… are you talking about dogs? =))

            • I think you’ll find that there are plenty of foreigners who love Romania too, including myself. Doesn’t mean it’s perfect and shouldn’t be criticised, however.

              You also seem to think that criticising Romania somehow equates to me thinking that my own country is perfect. It isn’t, and there is much about it which is crap. But I do not live there, I live here. That’s why I write about Romania. This blog is Bucharest Life, not London Life.

          • laur

            Mai sersemule tu daca mergi pe strada in vest si vezi strazi curate si firme luminoase crezi ca totu i proaspat. Stii tu cat cacat sta sub strazile alea poleite? Cate datorii se ascund sub ce te sparge pa tine? … tine i in brate pa toti ca acolo se munceste frate nu ca n romania nu? Avem numai de invatat de la fratii nostri din vest. Dupa ce au furat sute de ani pa tot globu au castigat si ultimu razboi au niste datorii cat nu o sa strangem noi in 7 generatii pasnice. Asta da civilizatie frate si model de urmat!!!

            • Ron

              Cu povestile astea nu ajungem nicaieri, sersemule. Nici macar la Dan Diaconescu. Hai sa-i lasam pe altii sa ne laude, iar pentru faptul ca suntem in mare parte nasoi, uita-te ce avem in parlament. Astia suntem, prietene.

        • Parmalat

          Plus, on top of that. Romanian race, DNA, produces the most gorgeous females in history of mankind.

          You’ve got to see Serbian or Belarus girls, they’re absolutely gorgeous. It’s true, Romanian girls are incredible too but McDonalds is about to ruin that, we don’t have so many sexy girls as we once had. High school girls especially are getting fat.

          • Silwer

            Seriously. You can witness a couple of fat girls on the streets of Bucharest. But seriously. Have you been to Croatia? How about Latvia Riga? The situation is far worser than any other place in Eastern Europe. Plus on top of that. Romanian girls are still the slimmest in Europe. If you walk into a McDonalds stand in Bucharest you´ll witness more slim hot chicks than any nightclubs in America or Western Europe. So seriously cut slack will ya?.

            • Parmalat

              I walk on the street every day, the situation is far from what it was 5 years ago.

              • Mister Rearguard

                Here in the Romanian countryside the kids are fat. They are spoilt lazy turds living on a diet of chips, coke and salami. They have no interests in any sport apart from “who can drink 2litres of coke in under 1 minute” contests.

          • Silwer

            And plus. Slavic women are nothing compare to Romanian women.

          • Silwer

            Probably in Ardeal, where females are more western looking(Hence ugly) are more chubby due to the fact they are not Romanian by genes. True Romanian women won´t get fat. You know, that typically classical petite brunette looking girl.

            • Parmalat

              =)))))) good one, I hate Ardeal too

          • Mister Rearguard

            Moldova has fitter birds. Rommy chicks eat too much MaccyD’s!

        • Magus

          >Plus, on top of that. Romanian race, DNA, produces the most gorgeous females in history of mankind. Way more superior than your race. I´m sorry, but that´s truth.

          This is hilarious. Every time a Romanian has to make the appeal to the “beautiful Romanian girls” – which don’t exist, at least not in comparison to the women of the rest of the European world, something the Romanian making such hyperbolic claims uually has no clue about – you know he’s lost and has nothing else to say. Btw, I challenge you to show me some photographic evidence of these “most gorgeous females in history (sic) of mankind”. Shouldn’t be too hard, as you claim.

    • Crae

      Why, Turkmenistan built a giant gold statue of their leader revolving around the sun and Turkmenistan is not backward at all.

  • Crae

    can i haz latinburger?

  • Ethan

    I won’t be able to “explain Romania” any better than anyone else here. But I love the country. I think it’s awesome.

  • Giuseppe

    Belgium… such a boring country. :))

  • …and when you think that the Austrians, Hungarians or even the Russians were really close to bringing civilisation to these lands…

    • Now you’re just asking for trouble… 🙂

      • I came to the right place… 🙂

      • Marky

        Hi Craig. Sorry to post this off-topic here. There’s a great episode of “Romania, te iubesc!”, Sunday at 6 pm, regarding how much meat the meat we have has, what bad E additives we take and how “traditional” is the traditional food. Shoud be interesting.

    • laur

      If only you knew what civilazation means…. I bet for you democracy is still a real word (and for many)

      • laur

        I love spellin mistakes

        • If you mention the spelling, then why your name is spelt with a lower-case, is that an inferiority complex?

          • laur

            Digresiuni penibile batrane Valentin…I shows you re too old for change…while you re lookin for great facades n shit..sneak a peak through the backyard a bit…maybe you ll find something one day if not too late. So tell me Valentin…do you think the Romanian language is closer to Latin more than Italian? Did you ever think to actually delve this?

            • I am sick and tired of “young” Romanian smart arses!

            • Magus

              >do you think the Romanian language is closer to Latin more than Italian?

              Is this a joke? Italian is the closest language to Latin in terms of both vocabulary and sound. Which makes perfect sense, considering how, you know, the Romans originated there and continued living and speaking their language uninterrupted for over 2000 years. If you knew even an ounce of Italian or Latin you would know this and not make statements like that.

              Out of all the Latin languages, Romanian is by far the odd man out, unintelligible to other romance-speakers and very difficult for Romanians to extrapolate what other romance-speakers are saying. This isn’t due to Romanian being “closer to to the original Latin” than the Western romance languages, as some deluded people believe, but partly because 1) Romanian has many Slavic, Magyar, German, Turkish and Greek loanwords, as well as words of unknown (possibly indigenous pre-Roman) origin (sometimes cognate with Albanian), and 2) many of the Latin etymologies in Romanian are peculiar to Romanian and different from the Western romance languages (e.g. basilica->biserică, as opposed to a derivation of ecclesia, anima->inimă, instead of a derivative of cor). There are rare instances where Romanian preserves an original Latin term that has changed in the Western romance languages (e.g. albus->alb, instead of bianco from germanic “blank”) but these are the exception rather than the rule.

              • Giuseppe

                :))

              • Giuseppe

                How the hell does one measure “closeness” between languages in any meaningful objective way? And why is it relevant?

                • Magus

                  >How the hell does one measure “closeness” between languages in any meaningful objective way?

                  Ask a linguist. There are methods in statistics and machine learning that can be used to assess similarity between language and even place them in phylogenetic trees. This is not something restricted to linguistics, but has also been applied to genetics and proteomics.

                  >And why is it relevant?

                  In this case it is relevant to Laur’s comments.

                  • Giuseppe

                    What you said would imply there is a scientific consensus regarding what language is the closest to latin. There is no such consensus.

              • laur

                excellent joke magus…now go study some more

                • Magus

                  Study what? You’ve yet to prove anything.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language

                  “In particular, among the Romance languages, Italian is the closest to Latin in terms of vocabulary.[7]”

                  Case closed.

                  • laur

                    Yep vocabulary. But in terms of grammar it pretty much trounces italian in relation to latin. I wonder why we don t have that on wiki.
                    I close cases,not you.

              • Parmalat

                We have Albanian words, we have gypsy words and I even discovered words similar to Pashto language (e.g. “duşman” which bears the same meaning in Romanian and in Pashto).

                Indeed, Romanian language should be the most different of all latin languages.

        • Hera

          I love how people that most probably never study Latin, or even speak Romanian can have so “absolute” opinions on the matter of how close to Latin this language is!!!

          First of all linguistics is not an exact science, and the definition of “close” is never fully agreed upon by linguists.

          But most of them agreed on a few things:

          “Romanian is closest in terms of grammar and is the only one that uses Latin declensions which means that spoken Romanian is closest to how Latin would have sounded when being spoken. Romanian also has a handful of Latin words that are simply not used in any form in other languages.

          However, when it comes to vocabulary, the most similar is Italian and/or Sardinian.”

          So, which one is closer would seem to come down to what we are measuring it against!

          So far for …absolutism!!!

          • Hera

            Without reading your comment….bore off will ya!

    • Parmalat

      Generally speaking – the West are a bunch of animals who killed each other for thousands of years and now they got the idea that it’s better to kill other people.

      They were lucky because the Jews instructed them what to do so as to develop their countries, otherwise they couldn’t have done it.

      While Romanians developed a country of their own, with their own thinking and their own resources. That’s exactly the difference between Romanian people and a bunch of criminals.

      Of course we’re proud to be Romanians! We built our country without creating a bloodshed around the world. We had no Inquisition, no 100 years war, no Fascism (although criminals imposed Fascism to us) and we never killed people in Afghanistan and Iraq (although a handful of our soldiers assisted 100.000 murderers in both places).

      • Magus

        If Romanians would had the chance to, they would have done all that and more. They impaled thousands without mercy, constantly executed their ruling class, fought among each other, enserfed each other, and even had slaves. Maybe you forgot the brutality the angelic Romanians inflicted on each other in recent memory, culminating in the execution of Ceausescu?

  • Geronimo

    What could be better for rational scientific debate than a healthy dose of desperate, angry nationalism? It’s served loads of great historical figures really well, especially in the 20th century.

    • Parmalat

      Nationalism is wonderful, it inflames spirits :mrgreen:

  • Geronimo

    One of the great comments from your Facebook page “5508 BC – Anul 1 oficial al crestinatatii ortodoxe de la Marea Neagra, anul 1 al istoriei cunoscute a Romaniei. Anul in care Marea Neagra a fost inundata prin Bosfor de Marea Mediterana”….that would about sum up the intelligent thinking going on there my insecure, paranoid, fantasist friend.

    • laur

      You are so lame. What about the pictures kiddie? DO you like the pictures kiddie? Do you think they re real? Does anyone dispute that?

      • laur

        I was never thought in school about this. I only remember the Hamangia thinker statute and nothing else. I had no idea at the the vast array of evidence of sites (that are still being dug out as we speak) and what it means.

        • Geronimo

          Just explain one more time for those of us who are a bit slow. What does it mean?

  • laur

    Allow me to go first: You don t believe what Densusianu says? This place you live now was the birthplace of mankind in Europe Craig. What this so called historian Boia with studies in england(who i can t call Romanian) fails to notice is what the entire world is slowly discovering. In America they re just finding out as you will see from the link i will provide. All of Romania s surface and a bit scaterred around neighbouring countries if full of evidence : Cultures which predate Egypt and Mesopotamia by miles.A long time ago all of Europe s edges were frozen like shit including the ”italian” peninsula my friend.The Romans occupied only 15 % of Dacia for only 150 years. Thats s max of 2 generations.Are you serious? Romanian language is closer to classical Latin more than Italian. (yes, i know u never knew) I could go on and i will but first have a look for yourself at some amazing things.
    I actually recommend u have a look at the expositions if you have the chance i know they re on my list. I ll tackle the other topics you wrote about but first i want an answer on this.

    Look on Fb for Old Europe Das Alte Europa or

    http://www.facebook.com/HistoryCultureTraditionsOfRomania?fref=ts

    • 🙂

      • laur

        Glad i helped you out. If you have other questions hopefully i can make you understand better.

    • yGns

      Oh, my!

    • Anon

      Can’t tell if serious…
      :/

      • Anon

        My god, she IS serious :/

        • Magus

          laur is a “she”?